New Shipping Fee Policy in Alibris Answers Forum

RSS
Email

0 Points

New Shipping Fee Policy

Author	Comment
losninos	New Shipping Fee Policy	Lead	[-]
Posts: 327 (05/05/09 07:42:57) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Tags : None Dear Alibris: Over the years, I've learned that changes in Alibris policy and procedure rarely are of benefit to sellers-usually to their detriment. I suspect that your new policy of copying Amazon as to variable closing fees is the same. I've never had anyone explain to me why Amazon has it's policy of giving the whole shipping fee to the seller and then taking some of it back as a fee. I''ve always suspected it had something to do with taxes, write-offs, earnings-some sort of accounting procedure that benefitted the company. I never saw where it had any impact on sellers; it was just a little confusing. The difference with Alibris, of course, is the 'service recovery fee'. It isn't clear in the announcement, but I presume this is a fee charged to the seller, not the buyer. The announcement also makes no mention as to any discretion for the fee depending on reason for cancellation. For example, if I mark a book as shipped and buyer contacts me saying they ordered the wrong book so please cancel, I'd appear to be charged fifty cents. If I'm a nice guy and accept a discretionary return without whining-as I believe Alibris appreciates us doing-I'll be charged fifty cents. If correct, then you know where this is heading? Less seller cooperation on principle alone as regards returns, refunds, and cancellations. I hope Alibris will address with more clarity the issue of its service recovery fee. If .50 is important to Alibris, it's important to me. I also hope Alibris will give rationale for its decision to copy Amazon's variable closing fee. I'll at least give Alibris credit for being more open and above board than in years past. Before, Alibris would have trumpeted this as a great change to benefit its dealers and how they arrive at this decision after being urged by dealers to do so. Alibris usually announced its shafting of sellers by telling what a great thing it was doing for us. Although I find the initial announcement lacking in clarity and detail, I appreciate the straight forward presentation of it.
sofaslug		#1	[-]
Posts: 139 (05/05/09 08:18:03) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Also have a question about the new shipping policies. It does indeed, as stated above, look like Amazon is the model that Alibris is attempting to follow here. One small issue that I have, Amazon does not offer combined item shipping discounts to customers. Each item is charged the full 3.99. With the new Alibris shipping system sellers will be taking a decent hit on mulitple item orders. Is there any way of revising this policy to make the additional item closing fee proportional to what the customer is charged for the second item ordered? (I.E. First item closing fee is 1.25, after that the closing fee is .70 per item or something similar.) With the new system the way it is announced, NO ONE would be able to make any money on multi-item Priority orders for this reason. Thanks for your time, and for the record, I do think this new system is a step up from the old way. Randy @ sofaslug's books
TheBooks	Reply To Alibris	#2	[-]
Posts: 1 (05/05/09 08:53:37) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Dear Alibris: I received your e-mail this morning regarding the changes to Albris shipping credits and I have to express that I am displeased with the decision both because of the actual policy and the way it is implemented. I am sure you researched and used to make your decision the similar change that Amazon made just a couple of years ago to an almost identical format. When they did it, it was wrong, and now it is wrong that you are doing it. I realize why you are doing it. The USPS keeps raising their rates and Albris does not want to raise shipping rates for their customers nor do you want to give a larger credit to sellers in order to make up the costs that we alone are incurring (not alibris) (it would be respectful to state this when you made the change). This way you can say that we get (for a normal sale) the full 3.99 in shipping so therefore we have more than enough reimbursement to cover shipping. Pretty soon everyone will forget (as some people did at amazon) that the 3.99 shipping rate was once tied into the new 'variable closing fee' and you can ignore raising shipping for a much longer time. If that is going to be your policy (to give the full 3.99 so that it continues to cover future increases in USPS shipping), than so be it, but if that is the case, then what just happened today (and on May 11th) is that Alibris instituted a 'new fee' for sellers. You already charge us 15-20% per sale in commission, so I really don't understand why you should have a 'variable closing fee' on top of that. Economic times are tough all around, but you cannot just 'pass these costs' along to your sellers who are already having a hard enough time making it. Either you're not keeping up with shipping costs or you are raising fees for no reason. You cannot be doing both. I don't expect you to revisit and change this policy, but I have to admit I am deeply dissatisfied that this policy was implemented and it was less than full transparent the reasons that you did so. I'm worried about all the little cost cutting factors (such as when you stopped providing self-stick MRS labels) that have the effect of further eroding the profits and time of your sellers. I hope you understand that we sellers notice these changes, and although there is not much we can do about apart from leave alibris, that we are not happy to be squeezed in this way.
1455		#3	[-]
Posts: 1 (05/05/09 20:26:08) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Ditto to most of what's been said. To sum up what just happened, we're getting hit with a fee. Don't try to disguise it by embedding it into a full shipping credit. Plain and simple, Alibris wanted to increase our fees, and they found a way to sugar coat it. Typical Shipping Credit: $2.65 New Shipping Credit : $3.99 Difference we keep: $1.34 NEW FEE: $1.25 Refund fee: $.50 orders marked as shipped... we ship daily, and our software accepts each order and marks it as shipped upon receipt, meaning we're going to have to change our processes which we were perfectly content with. We might* get to keep $.09 for a typical shipment after this whole structure change... but that'll likely get eaten up by refund fees, and multiple order shipments. I say drop this whole .50 refund fee nonsense. Pass the costs of doing business on to the customer, not the sellers, that's how most of the business world works, and customers expect it. Raise the minimum price books can sell for from $1.99 to $2.49, you'll get a bigger cut from us on your commission, and it'll help keep the prices of used books from completely deflating... like Amazon has helped do with their .01 book garbage. Anyway, whether or not that advice is good is not the point. Don't candy coat the implementation of new fees. Tell it like it is... If you're going to upset people, it's better to do it in an honest and up front way, not by confusion and cloaking you're real intentions. I held very high regard for Alibris, prior to reading that email and realizing that it's a bunch of fluff.
thebooke	1455	#4	[-]
Posts: 535 (05/06/09 04:16:38) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	AMEN!!! Very well said.
M5453	When did Alibris start being eBay?	#5	[-]
Posts: 1166 (05/06/09 05:04:54) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Start with a fee, then add another fee, then add another fee, then add another fee, then add another fee.... And one thing 1455 forgot...as of May 11th, the "typical" postage cost for Media Mail goes up to 2.77 $3.99-2.77=1.22-1.25=-0.03 Last Edited By: M5453 05/06/09 05:09:15. Edited 1 times.
Alibris		#6	[-]
Posts: 340 (05/06/09 08:18:36) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Hi losninos, Thank you for your question. Regarding the service recovery fee, Alibris never makes its sellers eat any cost when they are not at fault. However, you do have to email us to process the refund for you, or reverse the fee after the fact. We will also process discretionary returns for you at no harm to your rating, but you need to let us know about them by email. You must not have been on the previous thread when I asked all of you which site's model you preferred for shipping credits. Believe it or not, most sellers preferred Amazon's model, much to my continued surprise. To me the variable closing fee seems like a lot of math and complication, but our sellers have never seen it that way. We have received complaints about our current shipping credits for many years, despite the fact that the net amount for standard shipping is greater than Amazon's. Right now it is greater by a penny, and starting Monday it will be greater by $.09. I don't know what it will take to get sellers to recognize that--I have spelled it out numerous times. Regardless, by popular demand among our sellers, we have modeled our new shipping credit system after Amazon so that our sellers can make direct comparisons between our two venues. Our sellers also prefer this model over ABE's, where you are actually charged commission on the shipping amount you set. With Alibris, you also do have the option to follow our procedures to request additional shipping for heavy orders, consolidated orders, or expensive orders as necessary. I'll answer the rest of your questions separately to make this a bit more digestable. Thanks to you all for your partnership with Alibris. Regards, Heather Burns Alibris Client Services Director
Alibris		#7	[-]
Posts: 341 (05/06/09 08:24:35) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Hello Randy (sofaslug), You are right, this is where our new system diverges from Amazon's. If you find our combined credits are not sufficient for shipping your consolidated order, please email us with the additional amount you need and the PN#s before marking the order shipped. We will contact the customer on your behalf and charge him or her for the additional shippping. We will then pass the additional amount on to you. If the customer does not agree to the charge, we cancel the order on your behalf. In certain circumstances, we will also eat the additional shipping for you. Over all, based on our own experience in shipping items through Sparks and based on USPS averages, our research indicated that the amounts we set for credits would be sufficient on most orders. Thanks for your question-- Heather Burns Alibris Client Services Director
Alibris		#8	[-]
Posts: 342 (05/06/09 08:33:41) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Hello TheBooks, You make it sound like Alibris is profiting by these changes. That is absolutely not the case. You are right that we are not able to raise the cost of shipping for our customers. We have found that when we experiment with raising standard shipping above $4, it puts us out of the competition. When we learned about the USPS rate increases, we did our best to mitigate the changes so that Alibris and its sellers split the cost of the increase. WE ARE RAISING YOUR STANDARD CREDIT BY $.09! I can't believe so many sellers are not recognizing this fact, when Amazon and Half are not changing their standard credits, as far as we know so far, nor do they offer any recourse whatsoever when their credit is insufficient. As for our reasons for doing these changes, please see the previous threads about our sellers insistent preference for Amazon's model. Thanks for your feedback! Heather Burns
M5453		#9	[-]
Posts: 1167 (05/06/09 08:37:40) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	But the USPS is raising the price 12 cents!
Alibris		#10	[-]
Posts: 343 (05/06/09 08:45:15) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Hello 1455, The service recovery fee covers our costs of the transactions for both charging the customer, then refunding the customer. We are not profiting by this fee. It is intended to encourage sellers to keep an accurate inventory list and to provide a better experience to the customer. No one likes receiving an email stating their order has been shipped, then receive another one the next day stating the order was refunded. We cannot pass any further costs on to the customer and remain competitive in the market. We have done our research with price comparison sites, as well as customer surveys, and I assure you this is the case. We already have the highest minimum price in the industry, and there is no chance we will raise it higher. I'm sorry you felt our announcement was fluff (I indeed wrote the copy)--we tried to make it straightforward enough. If you would like to point out specifics with the language I used, please feel free. I will say that most sellers were not upset by the announcement--it was good news on the whole for many who are closely watching the lack of changes on other venues. Thanks for your comments! Heather
Alibris		#11	[-]
Posts: 344 (05/06/09 08:49:07) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Hello M5453, Yes, please see my previous thread. We are splitting the cost of the rate increase. Alibris is absorbing some of the cost, and our sellers are bearing some of the cost. This is more than any other venue is doing for you. Thanks for your comments-- Heather
whiteunicorna		#12	[-]
Posts: 484 (05/06/09 13:57:36) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Let's see: The names have changed but the dealer actually gets more money than before for S&H except under some circumstances where a service recovery fee is charged. However, "Orders canceled before being marked shipped will not be subject to a variable closing fee or service recovery fee." So the ones hurt are those who tell the customer "Sorry, I not only don't have the book but I didn't care enough about your individual order to check before I told you it had been shipped. So, tough s_it, you're canceled and here's your money back". Well, personally, I would prefer that Alibris tell the dealer that's an improper way to do business and, if you continue, you will no longer be able to sell on this site. O.K. +%*%$ about the raise in postage and or the fact that you don't get enough for postage from Alibris but basically the only thing happening with this change is that the dealer is getting more money (although, for some, not as much as they would like). That is, unless, IMO, you screw around with your customers and may be a cause of them not returning to Alibris to buy other books thus hurting sales of the rest of us. Just my 2¢ De DeWayne White http://www.alibris.com/stores/WhiteUnicornBooks A proud member of the IOBA - http://www.IOBA.org.
MindElec		#13	[-]
Posts: 1 (05/06/09 23:25:09) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	book dealers have long memories, while book selling sites seem to have short ones. so a little history here... 2 years ago when the PO raised their rates alibris raised the customer fee from $3.50 to $4 (but only after they saw amazon do it first). of this .50 increase they gave the bookdealers an extra .20 to cover increased shipping, which barely covered a 2lb book with online DC, the rest of the increase has gone into alibris pockets, thus they made an increased profit on shipping while the bookdealers were still having to eat the cost of packaging or shipping a book more than 2lbs. last year when the PO raised their rates, alibris announced that was a seller problem and did nothing. so for the past year sellers have lost money on 2lb books and higher. yes we could email asking for more, but who has time to ask repetitively for .20-30 cents for a book that is a pound or two heavier. so for the past year, i for one (i mainly sell hardcovers that when boxed weigh 2-3 lbs) have been losing money on the shipping of every order. now alibris flips the sellers a dime, while still making an increased profit off of the increase in customer shipping charges 2 years ago and can't understand why we aren't happy with their generosity. furthermore by changing the name of the fee you've made it so you'll not have to deal with future postage increases (taking a page out of amazon's playbook) and as another poster (sofaslug) pointed out you will be making more money off of multiple book purchases since a $1.25 closing fee will have to be paid for each book. this is why your new plan is not being seen as generous by many bookdealers. btw comparing your fee structure with ABE's is apples and oranges. they charge a lower percentage on sales, no closing fee, and sellers are in full control of shipping charges.
Lou Davis	Additional on-topic question for Alibris	#14	[-]
Posts: 55 (05/07/09 03:07:57) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Hello, In your e-mail announcing the new policy, you state: "This variable closing fee will be returned to the seller for orders refunded due to an incorrect shipping address or customer discretion." Up until now, in those rare instances when an order came back for a bad address and I asked you to cancel it, you have always debited me for net credit I received for the book, but allowed me to keep the postage credit. Does your new policy mean that I will get to keep both the postage credit plus the variable closing fee? Thanks Lou
samuraib		#15	[-]
Posts: 20 (05/07/09 07:11:37) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	And I do understand the logic behind $4 as the shipping tipping point for buyer and that Alibris does not want to break that threshold. The loss of sales due to crossing that threshold would be harder on us sellers, individually, than it would for Alibris, as a whole. But, as sellers, our postal costs are going up at the same time as our sales are going down due to the current economic depression. I realize that we are getting 9 cents more (and Alibris is getting a corresponding 9 cents less), but as it has already been noted, our postal cost is going up 12 cents What this change also does not consider are sellers who have to pay sale tax on intra-state sales on not just the gross sales amount but also on the shipping compensation (and the number of states where this is now mandatory is growing). My sales tax cost is going to go up an additional 8 cents on every intra-state sale that I make simply because of an accounting technicallity. And there is no mechanism for sellers to pass the sale tax on to the buyer as we would if we were running a B&M. This is just another cost we sellers have to swallow. But, my biggest fear is that Alibris will use this change as an excuse to not increase our shipping comp with the, now annual, May postal increases. This has been my problem with the Amazon model ever since they made the change. It is the duplicity and deception with which they utilize the system. We have not seen an increase in our SC on Amazon since they made the change 4 years ago but our postal costs have increased annually, and we will not see an increase again this year. And the only response we get from Amazon is that we get the full $3.99 in shipping, with no mention of the VCF, so there is no reason for Amazon to need to increase our SC. We have yet to see if Alibris will use this change in the same duplicitous fashion as Amazon has. I can only hope that you will not. I can handle telling us that it is not economically feasible for Alibris to no increase our SC with future postal increases more than I can using the new SC model as a duplicitous excuse. I have no problem with a company needing to charge appropriate fees to cover costs and make a profit, but don't treat us like we are stupid idiots who can't do simple math. But, at some point, both Amazon and Alibris will have to take a hard look at the SC and the shipping amount charged to buyers and make the tough call. You can not expect that sellers can continue to take this hit indefinitely. It won't take long for many of us to hit the tipping point and find that it is no longer feasible for us to stay in this business. And you will lose the best of us before you lose the worst. Had I known about the previous thread asking for our recommendations on this topic I would have posted them there. I do not expect a response to this post. I just wanted to put it out there. Thank You: Maria at Samurai Books
Alibris		#16	[-]
Posts: 347 (05/07/09 09:44:00) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Hi Lou, Yes, that is correct, if you receive a return due to a bad address, we do not charge you a closing fee, and we do not debit your account for the shipping. You would receive a debit for the item only. Thanks for the post-- Heather
Alibris		#17	[-]
Posts: 349 (05/07/09 10:01:59) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Hi Maria and MindElec, Thank you for your thoughtful posts. I speak to our sellers all day every day by phone and by email, and have been doing so for many years here at Alibris. I am always surprised by the suspicious nature of so many of our sellers. I do understand that many, many sellers are struggling in this economy, and for that reason I can see why you would suspect "duplicitous" intentions with any changes we make. I'm not sure what we can do to assure everyone that we are doing our best for you, while making sure we remain a viable business and a good value as a marketplace option. We try to make our communications straightforward, and we try to make our staff accessible for feedback, questions and suggestions. I'm a little leary of posting my direct line here on the boards, but if you ever do want to speak with me or any of our officers about the changes we make, send an email into the queue with the request and I will respond with a phone call. Alternatively, you can leave me a voicemail on the seller services line: 510-594-4509. Thanks again for your thoughtful feedback. I appreciate it, as do the officers and product managers of Alibris. Heather Burns Alibris Client Services Director
samuraib		#18	[-]
Posts: 21 (05/07/09 13:13:29) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Heather: Let me make it very clear that I am not accusing Alibris of duplicitous intent. But, having experienced this same procedural change on Amazon and the corresponding duplicity, excuses and double-talk, it should be understandable that we sellers are waiting to find out if the other shoe is going to drop here on Alibris as it did several years ago on Amazon and continues to do, over and over and over again to the point where I sometimes feel like a flat stain on the online bookselling pavement, on Amazon. And, while this is not an appropriate forum to address my issues and disappointments about other selling sites, this situation is just too similar to what happened on the big river not to do a compare/contrast. The big question, at least for me, is will the outcome be the same here as it has there. And we won't have that answer for at least another year. Hopefully, you will keep this in mind next May when the next round of USPS postal increases occur. Maria at Samurai Books
patcat		#19	[-]
Posts: 1 (05/07/09 15:05:54) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	I have a question and apologize if it has already been answered. On consolidated shipments, if we were given $1.20 for each additional, how much will Alibris be taking out of that. I could not figure it out looing at the new rate. Thanks, Pat
MindElec		#20	[-]
Posts: 2 (05/08/09 15:41:09) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	suspicious nature? i am merely looking at past behavior and making predictions based upon it and what we have been told thus far. i am always surprised at how bookselling sites dismiss seller comments that point out what they do not want to hear. the phone number is appreciated, but i don't know what you would say that you haven't said here. @patcat the question has been asked several times and ignored. looking at the current additional book rate of $2.19 we would in essence now be getting .94 for additional books on an order.

<< Previous Topic Next Topic >>

Yuku free message boards

New Shipping Fee Policy

New Shipping Fee Policy